The History of Female Leadership in the NALC
This podcast’s purpose is to give a history of women who have stepped into leadership roles within the National Association of Letter Carriers, and discuss the leaders of now and into the future.
The History of Female Leadership in the NALC
Amy Lee-Cole
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This episode features Amy Lee-Cole, President of Branch 319, East St. Louis, Illinois.
Welcome to the History of Female Leadership in the NALC podcast. I'm Craig Schaefer. I'm a city carrier in Cape Girarde, Missouri, Branch 1015. Today I'm honored to have a sister from St. Louis, East St. Louis, excuse me, and uh also a sister on the emergency response team. Go ahead and introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_01Hi, Craig. How are you?
SPEAKER_00Good.
SPEAKER_01Good. I'm Amy Lee Cole. I am branch president of branch 319 out of East St. Louis, Illinois.
SPEAKER_00All right. And how long have you been with the NALC?
SPEAKER_01I have 30 years in the Postal Service, but I've only been a letter carrier for 19 years, which means 18 years, nine months as a member of the NALC. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, um, you've been with the Postal Service a long time. Um, what brought you to the NAC, you know, if you don't mind, just let's go into your early life and what kind of brought you to the NALC or the post office, excuse me.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Okay, so I went to the military right after I graduated high school. Um, and when I got out, I'm thinking, oh, okay, I'm gonna maybe try school or something like that. But before we actually ETS, um, they always suggest that you take the civil service exam. And I did, you know, six months to my ETS date, which was December 15th, you know, 1990. And I'm going, 1990. The first time, wait a minute. Okay, yeah. My active duty was 1990, my reserve time was 94. Okay, I got you. I had to get that right, okay, because I had two different ETS dates. So I took the civil service test and it brought me here. I had forgotten about it because the Postal Service wasn't hiring at the time. And it just one day I get a letter in the mail, come for an interview at the main post office, and then I get a mail handler offer, and that's what happened. So um, in the main plant, they always have hiring events and job applications that they post, you know, on a regular basis. So, what happened? I was just bored. I had been driving a forklift 10 years, and I thought, there's gotta be something else. I want to go somewhere and do something different. And they were hiring in both accounting and letter carriers in East St. Louis. And I'm going, okay, I live in East St. Louis, I probably can do that. So I got both interviews one day on a Wednesday, then the next day I had an interview in East St. Louis, and they took me where the accounting offices were set up, and I'm going, I can't be in here locked in this room all day. I can definitely not do that. And it's a time I had four kids, right? Well, still, you know, still have four kids, but they were small and it didn't all allow a lot of overtime, and it was just straight eight hours a day. So I'm going, no, I don't think that's the job for me. So I decided to take the letter carrier position, and the rest is as they say, history.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's awesome. I'm glad you chose the letter carrier.
SPEAKER_01I know, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's worked out well. Um, so now you're uh a letter carrier, you're in the NALC. Was there something a lot of times people when I talk to them, there's there was something that triggered them to decide to um maybe pursue a role in the NALC, you know, of some sort. Was there something like that for you, or what what caused you to decide to take a leadership role?
SPEAKER_01Well, I I don't know if it's politically correct or if you have to edit that out. But my past president, he was one of those. It was my my union, my this, my that, I, I, I. And I was his steward at the time, and he had said something in reference to his union. If you go against me, you go against my union, this, that, and the other. And it was a really good friend of his who was also a really good friend of mine, and I didn't like it. So I say, hey, he's been the president for a very long time. And I'm thinking nobody wants his job. Let's see how many people don't like him. And that's how it started. And the rest is, as they say, history, and that was three, four terms ago.
SPEAKER_00So oh wow, okay. Well, I mean, that that's a good enough reason, you know. Uh the the the union isn't the president, exactly.
SPEAKER_01It's everybody, and and it really hurt the guy, and it it did something to me, actually, because we didn't have a relationship, so I'm his steward, but he never said anything or gave me anything to do. So I just read, you know, read, you know, and I had a lot of people that had already known, you know, throughout, you know, my years or whatever that I had already had relationships with. So I would talk to them and they would lead me in the right direction. And, you know, I've been the better for it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, definitely. That that is one great thing is uh there's always people to reach out to. I uh I'm I'm very fortunate to have a lot of great mentors and people, friends and brothers and sisters that I rely on. They probably when they see my phone, their my name pop up on their phone, they're just like, oh no, not again. But they're always very, very gracious. So uh yeah. So um, you know, you mentioned a couple positions that you've held. What all what positions have you held in whether branch or just NALC in general?
SPEAKER_01Oh God, the jobs I do now. Let me see. Uh I'm branch president. I am on the DAC committee for EAP. Um, I am now the health benefits rep because the one that we had before uh decided to buy a Blue Cross Blue Shield plan. Um, of course, alongside you and a couple other people, he are the emergency response team. Um, I am uh academy instructor, full-time academy instructor. Well, two weeks a month. Um Illinois State Chairwoman. Um also the Illinois State liaison to Miss Nikki Brzezinski down in the 16th. So I guess I do quite a bit, actually. Oh man.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01When I list up like that, when I when I give that presentation at the academy, I'm going, oh my God, I do a lot. I'm tired.
SPEAKER_00Well, and um just to be you know clear of what's going on right now, you're actually in a hotel room in Carbondale, Illinois, because we were called out on an ERT uh call, and uh we spent the morning together. You made the long drive down here this morning, so I know you're worn out, and I appreciate you doing this for me. Um in your current position, well, I I guess you can pick which one. I I we'll just go with your presidency. What exactly are your duties as branch president there?
SPEAKER_01The contract side or the personal side? Because being um I'm trying to find the right words for the answer. I am the oldest female in my office when I look around. I'm going, you are the old lady here. And just 57 years young though. And I have a lot of younger carriers who always need to call me and talk to me, or can I come to your office and talk to you? And they know as their president that their information stays with me, so they trust me with their things. So um, I've been fortunate enough to have probably the best vice president I could ever have. And he keeps the ball rolling on everything. So I think the most part is the personal part and the relationships that I form with people when they need them, you know. Um, they always have to have that open door, and I've been that for them.
SPEAKER_00So well, that I think is probably what makes you so amazing on the emergency response team because uh I've I've been fortunate or unfortunate, I guess, for the calls, but fortunate enough to be with you on two separate calls, and uh both of them, you you just give off this aura of love and security, and you can tell when you're you know, I kind of stand behind you a little bit and let let you do your magic, and the way that the carriers respond to you is amazing. I mean, uh you I've seen you go up and talk to some people that I was like, oh, this is not a good idea. She should not even talk to this guy. He he looks like he's angry, and the next thing you know, I see you guys hugging, and and it's like, well, she she did it again, you know. So I can I can tell that that is this is meant for you, obviously, because you're you're you're killing it like that. It's just uh amazing to watch. So I I always when I heard that I was gonna be with you, I was excited to see you again and and just be with you, even though you know it's not in the best circumstances, obviously.
SPEAKER_01Um Yeah, you have to meet people where they are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you do a great job of it. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_00So this is a little bit um, you know, this is I I always ask these questions and they're they're not really fun questions, but I feel like it's very important to get it out. Um as a as a female, you know, I know that a lot of times you guys have to do double duty to get the same, you know, credit as a guy a lot of times.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00But have you in in your experiences with in the within the Postal Service and in your NALC uh positions, have you had any issues with uh any kind of discrimination um of any kind? And if you sa, if so, did how did you deal with it and do you feel it was resolved?
SPEAKER_01Hmm. I was reading that and and I was trying to dredge up something. And men, first of all, always have to I'm trying to figure out the words. I don't want to offend anyone. Um men are different, you know, and and the thing that you said, uh, we have to work twice as hard to be, you know, even recognized for as half of what you guys already are recognized for, whether you did it or not. You know, maybe there's like if if someone's on a panel and the female cites something in the JCAM or the NEL ELM or something like that, they always have to go back and double check and make sure we said the right thing. You know, whereas I've been in rooms where the men would say something and I'm going, I don't think that's what that said, but the powers that be never check. And there's a there's somebody um that I kind of work for but not work for. And I I I take very strongly to some of his convictions. It's the unseen. Having been in the military, it it's some things that you know, racism and discrimination, um it's hard to hide, you know, when it when it sticks out like a sore thumb. And he can't hide it. I it it doesn't matter, and it's the way he's he's sexist, some of them, you know, and you know, sad to say, in 2026, you know, just as matter-of-factly, and and it's the things that they say about your level of intelligence, whether you have it or not. None of us know everything. The men, the women, nothing. We're all learning, we're all works in progress. So when you talk down on people, that doesn't help it. And he has a tendency to do that. So I'm gonna say just a little bit, and it's never gonna be resolved because people are who they are, right? We all have something that makes us who we are. You kind of build a bridge and get over it because I don't have to see you, you don't have to see me. We can coexist and everything will be okay, you know, because cowards hide behind, you know, their desk and things of that nature. And I think that's cowardice, and you know, that's just me. Yeah, maybe I overthink it a little bit, but I don't think so. And actually, I'm being really nice about it because you know it it's yeah. I got called a girl by a postmaster that I was having a a form A with. Called me an effing girl, as a matter of fact. And I think I said something like your mom, something like that. Because he had oh, he had made me so mad, and I was like, what would make him angrier than what he just called me? He didn't say girl, he called me a gal, is what he called. And my grandmother said, Never let a fat white man call you a gal. And I never looked it up, and I'm sitting here thinking to myself, my grandmother's words echoed, and I was like, Your mother. Oh my god, he got so red, and it was kind of like goes back to some slave stuff, but anyway, he called me a gal. That didn't go too well for him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, there's no reason for any of that, whether it's uh you know, postal management, right, fellow workers, you know, or our union siblings, you know. Um, we're we're all in this together. At the end of the day, even the even the supervisors, the postmasters, if the if if we're not working together, I mean, we're all employed at the end of the day by the postal service. And if there's no post office, none of us have jobs. So they seem to forget that a lot of times, and they treat us like they don't that we're like we're not worthy. And you know, I've seen them talk to and uh treat ladies and you know, minorities in general. You you I've everyone has seen it, and you know, I I look back on some things and in my past and I wish I would have stepped stepped up and said something, and I didn't, and now I really regret that, and now I will go to bat for anybody, you know, because uh, you know, unfortunately, um, in my just because of who I am, my skin tone and my uh gender, I have a little power for no reason other than that, and it's kind of silly in my opinion, but I'm gonna use it to my advantage and make sure that I speak up for people that maybe don't have that same privilege. But um anyway, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for sharing that.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, another kind of tougher question uh would is you know, you were listing all of your positions, all the things you do. Um has the time that you, you know, dedicate to your brothers and sisters in the union and all of your positions, has that been an issue for your family or your friends where you've had to, you know, miss things, you're not able to go or you know, caused any issues at all with family or friends because of the time you have to spend on your work.
SPEAKER_01Well, my vice president, when I told him yesterday I was leaving because I told him you got to run the meeting tonight. And he goes, You need to quit something, damn it. And I'm like, What? He was like, No, you go, I'll run the meeting. He was just joking. Um I try really hard not to, and I'm glad that this came, you know, things happen when they're supposed to. You know, um, my baby boy had just graduated college when I started um when I became president, and they didn't need me like they did, you know. So on Friday, I get them all together, we eat, you know, and you know, yourself recently I lost a son about 18 months ago. So we get together twice instead of once now. So it's kind of like I make our time our time, nothing can interfere with that. So if I'm away, then we'll make up for that day. And then, like, I've been texting them all day, and they're like, Okay, Maso, what are you gonna eat? So I I asked them, Well, I don't eat out much because I love to cook, right? So I my daughter says, Well, Chili's got pretty good pasta. I don't agree. It was okay, mediocre at best, but you know, it's it was okay. So, no, it don't take very much away. Um, the relationships that I have with my friends, you know, your your friends, my friends are awesome. I don't have but a few. I have a lot of postal family. I love my postal family. Uh everybody that I meet someplace like you, I love you. Like it's crazy because in any other area, we never meet, right? You walk past all these people at National Convention and you kind of catch eyes and say, Oh, hey, how you doing? Where you from? Blah blah blah. And you may never see these people again. So the the sisters and brothers that I've you know gathered, um, is very important. And I never had very many friends anyway, you know, personal, because this wasn't. I was probably I've been told I'm too manly for the women and too girly for the men, if that makes any sense. So I kind of like fit in the middle somewhere. I don't really know what that meant, but I don't either.
SPEAKER_00I I think you're perfect the way you are, actually. So I don't know, I don't know, but everybody has their opinion, I suppose. But uh, you know, um you you're just an amazing lady, and I I I'm the same way though. You know, it's uh you and I would have never ever met, probably most likely we would have never met if it wouldn't have been us standing on waiting for that shuttle to go to maritime for our ERT training and just happened to spark up a conversation. Next thing you know, we're talking about Caro, you know, and and your ties, your family ties to Caro. And um it's it's wild the way that worked out, but uh I I instantly felt like uh I gravitated towards you just because of like I said, your aura. You just have a great aura and you're just an amazing lady. And so uh it was very nice to meet you, and I'm like I said, I just love knowing that when I heard that you were coming down for this one, I was like, all right, I'm I'm good. You know, she's she's awesome. We're we're we'll we'll knock this out. Right. So um well, on a little bit more of a fun question, um what when you're not doing all this stuff, when you are with your family, what do you like to do as far as to unwind, relax? Do you have hobbies? What what do you like to do when you're not dealing with NALC stuff?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I love to cook. Oh, that's what I want to do really in life. I want to go and take some classes to like broaden my grasp, my scope, or whatever. But I love cooking for them. I like to watch people eat, is what it is. So what we do sometimes when my kids were little, I had all these cookbooks, right? And my son that passed away, he would say, which country? Because they were from different countries, right? Because when I went to Germany, they would have Italian cookbooks in English, though. Italian cookbooks, uh, Japanese, uh English, you know, real English food, you know. And we would pick a country and we would find something to make and we pump it or dump it, you know. And that's fun. We either kept it or we went, nah, we're never making this again. You know, and I really do. I really like watching people eat. Like my family and I, we have family day every Sunday because my my dad just turned 80. My mom's 77, she has dementia, she's the funniest thing on the planet, I swear. And there's four of us, and we all get together. Our families go to my parents' house, and they've been married now. They just had their 59th anniversary. And Yeah, we just go over there and we eat and we play Uno or whatever we're gonna do, you know, karaoke and then we I cook and my mom she thinks she's like the bomb, right? But she can't remember a lot of stuff. And I had promised her, I say, if you forget, mom, I'll remember for you. And she says, Now you told me that you were gonna remember what I forget. Now it's funny how you have dementia. And I think she's starting to play it to her advantage because now she goes, Okay, so if you can tell me what to put in it, why don't you just do it? And I'm going, oh, okay, I got you. So say less, you know. So we kind of like do that, and I look so forward to Sunday. Even I'm tired, I'm sometimes I'm up to 10:30, 11. Then I gotta try and wind down, and next thing I know, it's six o'clock again, right? So I look forward to that, you know. So good.
SPEAKER_00That's what we that's awesome. That is that, and I'm sure there's some very good food.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I I believe we were in one of our other ones, and there was another lady with us. Uh Marvella was with us from Iowa. Yeah, and uh, we went out and we were eating, I forget where we were even eating.
SPEAKER_01We went to um um um um cracker barrel.
SPEAKER_00Was it okay?
SPEAKER_01That was just cracker barrel.
SPEAKER_00Uh it may have been that it was one of those hotels or one of those restaurants right near our hotel.
SPEAKER_01It's cracker barrel.
SPEAKER_00And um you guys were just discussing different things you were cooking and things that you had cooked, and I was I was just sitting on the side salivating, basically listening to it. So yeah, it was it was fun. Uh, it made Cracker Barrel not taste so well after listening to what you guys were cooking.
SPEAKER_01But that was my first time actually eating there. I haven't eaten there again either. Yeah, like I say, I don't eat out much because it could go there.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. So um, you know, you you've been around for a while, you've seen a lot of things, you've done a lot of things in the NALC. Um, I always like to ask if you have a piece of advice that you would give to someone that is maybe just kind of, you know, listening to this, thinking, I think I want to do something in the NALC. What would be a piece of advice that you would give that person?
SPEAKER_01Stand on your word. Be your authentic self. The person that you are does not need to change to fit in the room, make the room adjust to you. Because a lot of times you see people change because who they're around. Always be you. Learn as much as you can learn. When somebody sends you in a direction, take that direction, see where it leads you. If it's not your path, don't take it. But always take you with you, no matter what that path is. People lose sight of themselves and then they get bigger than the mission. And the mission fails when you get bigger than the mission, you know. But if you stay who you are, stay humble. And if you're a woman, wear your stilettos. Let the man wear his own Stacy's. Women have to walk in their shoes. We can't try to fit the male demographic. We have to be us, you know. So always be you. I think that's what I would say.
SPEAKER_00That's that's great advice. Great advice. Because like, and I agree, a lot of times people um kind of forget who they are, and um that's that's the most important thing. You gotta remember what you're here for. Exactly. So um in closing, um, I'm just gonna turn the floor over to you. If you have anything you want to throw out, anything extra to add that I missed, it's it's yours.
SPEAKER_01No, it's um this ERT, I would put that out there since that's what we're here for now. Um, I think that was probably if the president and Manny does nothing else. I think this was probably the best thing that they've they could have done.
SPEAKER_02I really do.
SPEAKER_01This is so important, and I had no idea that we were, you know, succumbing so quickly. You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying so quickly, but we needed each other. EAP is horrible. You hear that every time we go out. Um, how like even if the people told us this morning that the EAP lady came in and says, okay, I'm from EAP. If you need me, I'm in the back. Like, what they pay you guys like a whole salary, and that's that's what you say. Like, I'm in the back. If you want to talk, come back here. Like, no, we need to be that for each other. So I'm glad to have the opportunity to do whatever it is I do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_01I guess that's that's probably that.
SPEAKER_00That's perfect. I I'm glad you plugged the ERT. Um, uh, I think the word's starting to get out, but it's still kind of it, it it not everybody knows about it. And I think the more people know, the more uh they'll, you know, and and you know, when we go in there, I think you've noticed the first day everybody's a little standoffish, but um usually by the second day when we come through, everybody's a like, okay, these you know, we we get it now, and you know, you get to talk to some people, and um it it just is a great program. And like you said, it's kind of picked up where EAP has kind of you know maybe dropped the ball a little bit, but um well uh that's pretty much all I have uh for you, and I appreciate you, and I don't want to hold you on here anymore because I know that you've had a killer long day and you've got another long day ahead of you tomorrow. Um I I appreciate you I I appreciate you jumping on here with me. I I I know, like I said, that everybody I talk to has a million things going as you listed off all of your duties and for you to take a few minutes with me. I really do appreciate it. And um I like I said, I I love you. I appreciate everything you do. You're an amazing lady, and uh I'm I'm honored to be able to serve on the ERT with you and all the other phenomenal people. I'm I'm very fortunate to be even in your guys' presence. So thank you so much. And uh thank you so much. All right. Well, you have a good night, and thank you for listening to my podcast. Be safe and be kind of a good one.