Annette Taylor

This episode features Annette Taylor, Vice President of Branch 651, Annapolis, Maryland.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Welcome to the History of Female Leadership in the NALC podcast. I'm Craig Schaefer. I'm a city carrier in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, Branch 1015. Today I am so excited and happy to have my guest. If you don't mind, please go ahead and introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Hi, my name's Annette Taylor, and uh I'm from branch 651 in Annapolis, Maryland. Uh I've been with the NALC since the day they allowed me to sign up in February of 1985.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Awesome. Awesome. So uh if we can go back a little bit before 1985, um, what what brought you to the postal service in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Well, um, I was in the military and my husband was the chef at that time. And uh I was given it a go to see if I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. And I give great tribute to those women that can do that, but that is not my forte. I decided it would be better if I was away from my children during the day because I would be kinder to them so and appreciate them more. So um I was trying to think of what I wanted to do. I had a waitress job, which of course provided nothing. And my husband uh had health insurance at that time, but I wasn't sure how long that would last, how long his job would last. So um I was at home um and I saw the letter carrier, and he was just be bopping around. I lived at an apartment complex and he was bebopping around, you know, seemed to really be enjoying him like himself. And I said, you know what? I love being outside. I've always loved being outside. This would be a cool job. It doesn't look that hard. So I he I went to him and said, How do I get a job with the post office? And he told me back in that was 1984 at that point. He said, Uh, we'll just go up to the Laurel Post Office, which is where I was living, and just walk in and keep looking for the uh advertisement for the test. So I take my kids in the stroller, go up there and look for the finally saw the post and uh took the test and the rest is history and got a job at the post office. And I'll tell you, this job has uh saved me many times in in in terms of financially, with healthcare, you know, with retirement, all that stuff. I wouldn't have had that if it wouldn't have been for my job. So, you know, that's uh so important to me.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And uh so then you you got hired in in '85, and uh obviously you wouldn't be here if it wasn't a case. Um what caused you to pursue a role, a leadership role in the NALC?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Well, my story's a little backwards than most, because when I got out of the military and went into the post office, one of the first things they said was, hey, you know, we have opportunities for um advancement. And I thought, you know, that might be interesting. So I started taking business classes at the local community college, and um I thought, you know what, I'm gonna give it a try. So I tried being a 204B. And I tell people being a 204B was what made me a wonderful union representative because I saw, and that was back way before some of the uh automation that's happened, some of the numbers counting that's being done now, um, way before that. Um, but there was still a lot of abuse going around around. I the thing that just made me finally quit was a letter carrier friend of mine uh told me when I was going around getting the times, I'm gonna need about a half hour today. And I'm like, okay, I know him, I trust him, good guy. And when I took that back to my manager, he said, He's lying to you. I said, He's not lying to you. He said, I think he is. And I started doubting myself. And that's when I said, No, no, no, no, I'm done. I'm done with this, I'm not gonna do this. They're playing with my mind, I don't need that. So I went, I quit that, and it wasn't a week later I went to my president and said, I want to get uh really involved in the union. And of course he had to break the news that I couldn't do that for a little while. So uh after that time was up, I uh he came back to me, he said he's still interested, and I said, Absolutely, and uh I'm just so happy that he came back to me. And that was my mentor, Larry Carroll, and said to me, you know, we need you, so come on in. And that's that's where I started.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

I'm glad he came back to you because we're all glad you're here.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Um me too.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Since then, um, what positions have you held?

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Okay, I had to write these down because I had to think about it enough. Um first I was shop steward, of course, and um then became informal and formal A. And then, well, at that time it wasn't informal and formal A, it was step one. So I would I would do step ones. And then um I became a shop steward later. I was the secretary of our branch, I was the vice president of our branch, and I was also the president of our branch. And then with the state association, I was the um I was a trustee, um, the secretary, and the vice president of the state association. Uh, I'm also an arbitration advocate, and uh, I was the step E representative. So there you go.

unknown 6:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

So and and even today, you are still the vice president of your branch, correct?

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yes, yes, I okay and seem to get out.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Well, um, I gotta say, we're always looking for younger people to take my place. I'm not wetted to my position, let me put put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Well, the the branch is very lucky to have you. I'm telling you that right now. But uh yeah, of course, you're you're always wanting someone to step up, and a lot of times it's it's kind of hard getting somebody to get in. So I have a couple in my branch that they showed a little bit of interest, so I jumped on them, I pounced. And so, yeah, you you know, you got to do what you gotta do there. Um normally I ask what you would do in your current position as uh the vice president, but I'm gonna switch this up a little bit because actually we spoke a little bit before this interview. I had a request uh from a listener wanting to hear more people that uh have been either a step B or an arbitration advocate and kind of wanted to know what your duties are when you're doing that sort of position. So if you don't mind, I know that I know that you aren't I I don't know if you're currently doing still doing step B and arbitrations at all, but if not, if you don't mind, I know that you have the VP position, but I would appreciate it if you don't mind kind of going into what goes into like arbitration advocacy.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Okay, um, I'm no longer a step B representative because I'm retired from the Postal Service. Uh, and you have to be an employee of the Postal Service to do that, um, because you're paid by the Postal Service at this point. Um that job is um I thought I would like that job better than arbitration advocate, but I gotta say I don't. Um I I the STEPE is a very tight dance to do with a management representative. Um, you have to figure out how to have a relationship and still respect that they've got their position too. Um and steppe decisions should be just exactly what's in the file. If you make a file ready for Steppe E, you should have the question and the answer, the question and the answer, the question and the answer. And if you have all those answers, then you're gonna have a good grievance and get uh a good answer. Um, it's getting a little more difficult, especially in my region. There's been a whole lot of um impasses in our step B. I understand that's a problem a lot of places. So it I think step B, unless um something intervenes, uh is going to get more and more difficult for the Step B representatives. But as a I would highly recommend it to someone who's interested in like mediation and willing to talk back and forth with someone. That's what that's about. It's mediation. Um, arbitration, on the other hand, um, I actually didn't start doing arbitrations until I was retired. So here ye retired people, you can still go. If you're if your uh business agent will send you, you still go to arbitration advocate uh school. It's uh a tough school. That one was uh, I guess Stephie was just about as far. Both schools are very um challenging, very challenging. It's not for the light of heart. If you if you really want to do this, I say give it a try. Give it a try. Um but arbitration is more of uh you look directly at what's in that file and you figure out how to make the best case for your either grievance or for your the local that's filing the contract grievance. Um you put together your case by looking at it. Um you do an opening statement. Uh, you're taught all this in the arbitration academy, school, whatever they call it. Um, but you do an opening statement and you practice that when you're in training. Um, then you argue the case by asking people, witnesses, questions. Um, and then the arbitrator who has never seen the case before he or she walked in that door, um, makes a decision uh within 30 days after that hearing. So uh I really, really enjoy that. So that's my one of my favorite things right now that I'm doing. Awesome. And luckily, I don't have much of a job as a VP because I've got a great president. He just leans on me for advice.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

So there you go. That works out real well. Well, uh I I I appreciate you going into that because, like I said, I had just had a conversation earlier this week with someone uh about that very thing, and they were really wanting to hear, you know, the pros and cons of going into like uh approaching the step B or at arbitration. So that that definitely cleared it up. I I really appreciate you going into that. Um kind of on a a little bit darker note, and especially with the time when you came into the postal service back in the mid-80s, I mean you were at still at this point, it's still a male-dominated field, but at that point, it was extremely male-dominated. Um did did you deal with any harassment, discrimination, or anything from either management or even unfortunately, NALC siblings?

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Um again, having been in the military and I I was in a job that had very few women in it. Um, so I had already dealt with some of that and had kind of figured out my strategies for dealing with whatever. Um, when I came in the post office, again, they touted themselves as equal opportunity, da-da-da-da-da. And I was really excited about that. So, for the most part, I would say sometimes management, uh, there's been a few cases of um immaturity in management where they decide they don't want to listen to me because rarely does that happen. But I gotta say, the day I interviewed for my job, my postmaster tried to talk me out of taking the job because I was only 110 pounds and five, four, and he told me I would never be able to do the job. Did I really want it? Heck yeah, I do. I want this job. So, you know, I took the job. And uh when I really started getting more involved in the 90s uh with um uh union things and going to union functions and things like that. And again, I I I told you that I had a a very good mentor, uh Larry Carroll, who really was supportive. He's since passed, but he was very supportive of women and really made an effort to seek out women um to put them in leadership positions. And um when I went to some functions with him, I would find that there was a discussion of people, and the crowd would slowly shrink and I would be outside of the circle. It was the most odd thing. I would slowly be, you know, no longer part of that conversation. So that was really difficult because I don't take disrespect very well. Um I can take a lot of things, but disrespect is not one thing that I'm a I can take very well. Um, so I've dealt with it, but you know, I pushed past it. I mean, you have to and find people who are supportive of women. Um, I've met so many men, you know, further on in the union who aren't very supportive of women in leadership positions. You know, I am so proud of you, how you're doing that with this podcast, you know, that women really need to take these roles and uh be a part of it and represent the you know the percentage that we are in the in the letter carriers.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

So well, thank you. Um I appreciate that. That means a lot coming from you. Um well um another question that I have for you is obviously you are you've done so many things uh for the union over the years. Has your time that you've put into the union functions and being away, you know, from your family, has that caused any issues for either family issues or friends?

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Uh I I really don't think so. Um I didn't spend a whole lot of time away from my family because our region is pretty small. So uh if I went to an event, it would be just normally an overnight or even a drive away. Um conventions, I tried to make them part of our family vacation. You know, I take someone else along. If it wasn't my husband and, you know, their kids, we we just have fun after the convention was over. And um I also when my children were little, because in nine in the 90s, my kids were like um 10, age 10 to 7. Uh my mother-in-law uh lived with us. So uh she was able to watch the kids if I had like a meeting at night or something like that. So I was very lucky to have that support. Yeah, that's a a real concern for women. Um, and I know I see it when I talk to women about taking positions, is that you know, you need that support, or you need to know you can bring your kid with you, or you need that support from somebody to watch your kid while you take part in these things, and it does make it, I think, a tad more difficult. I I say women, but there's also single parents of both sexes, so I gotta put that there. But yeah, it makes it a little more difficult, but it's definitely rewarding.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

So yeah. Well, uh, I'm I'm so glad to hear that because you do you kind of get a a range. Some people, you know, they've had supportive families, and you know, it's worked out pretty well, and then other ones that it it sounds like they've been through the ringer, and you know, it's like it it really kind of stinks because they're they're doing it for the right reason. They're doing it to help their union siblings out and then you know, try to make the workplace as best they can, and then you know, they're having to deal with both sides of it, so it kind of stinks. So I'm glad to hear that. Um, well, uh, you know, you said you're retired, but you're really not retired, but you know, you are retired, but you're not retired. But so when you, you know, decide that today I'm gonna take the day off, or you know, I'm gonna turn my laptop off and turn the phone off, and I'm just gonna enjoy some relaxation and uh, you know, maybe do something. What do you like to do to unwind and relax? Do you have hobbies?

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Oh, yeah. Well, you know, the funny thing is, one of them is walking and hiking figure. Um, I I like doing that and I love reading. Um, I'm always on a quest for knowledge. I mean, what can I say? I'm a constant reader. Um, so those are my main ones, I would say. We like to travel too. My husband and I do like to travel.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

So well, I I definitely remember seeing the videos of the birds looking for, you know, looking for different animals, your dog, trying to find the dog on Facebook and everything. I always, I always it's like, where's Waldo kind of thing where I'd search for him in there and everything? So yeah, I I had a feeling that was part of it. Um I'm going to interject a like a different question in here that I don't normally ask, but there is something that I need to know. And I believe if I'm wrong, correct me, but I believe it was 2022. We had a little thing called the Post Reform Act that President Biden signed, and there was somebody there when he signed that, and they looked a lot like you. So it was that you that was there, and if so, how did that happen?

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Oh, that was indeed me. As I mentioned, I'm in the uh Maryland area, which is I'm uh like a 40-minute drive from NALC, uh, the Capitol, and all the rest of that. Um, Eddie Davidson was up at NALC, and he gave me a phone call. He called me one day. I had worked on a project up there and you know, this and that. And he called me up and he said, Hey, would you be interested in going to a bill signing? And I'm like, Oh, yeah, man, definitely love to go to a bill signing. And I'm, you know, you you get called out, go to a bill signing, you're thinking there's tons of people there, right? You know, like 15, 20 other people. I don't know, people from NALC. Yeah, man, I'll go. Okay, I'll get back to you. So I get a little a call a little bit later, and he says, Okay, I just want to let you know they're checking on you at the White House to see if you can get in. And I'm like, wait, White House? And he said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, the bill signing is gonna be at the White House. I'm like, okay, that's cool. Well, let me know what happens. So he calls me up the third time, and he says, Yep, they okayed you to come to the White House, and uh you're going to be introducing the president for the bill signing. The US president? Yes. Okay, why isn't Fred doing it? Was my question. And the answer was they wanted someone who was both retired and a veteran. That's what the Biden uh people had asked for. And I met both of those qualifications because the uh the reform bill did a lot for retirees and uh a lot for veterans. So um I went there, I had to go through a COVID test, of course, at that time. They stuck me in a little room, and I'm still imagining there's probably gonna be other people with me, and I'm waiting in the room for whatever's gonna happen next. And a young aide came in, she was my aide in the White House, and she came in and she said, Um, are you okay? And I said, Yeah. I said, When are the rest of the people getting here? And she said, What rest of the people? And that was when I knew I was they uh they had sent me a little speech to do, which is fine. I've got people around me. I'm gonna do a little speech, so we'll be fine. But no. So I was by myself up there, and I was so proud to represent letter carriers, especially veterans up there. That was, I mean, it's making me tear up, but The the opportunity that I got there was just wonderful. I had the opportunity to speak to uh President Biden for a little while in the one of the rooms leading into where we made the announcement. Um I got to stand next to my representative, Stanny Hoyer, and um here's a cute little story you might enjoy. So I'm up there and they had rehearsed me before where I should stand. Here's your name, here's your spot, do this, okay, I got it. And um we got up there with Biden in the middle, and he's getting ready to sign. And um Stanny Hoyer walks up, my representative behind me, and he goes, Where am I supposed to stand? And I said, Sir, you're my representative, so you can stand right here with me. And he laughed and he goes, Oh, great. And President Biden goes, That's your representative, and I said, Yes. And he goes, Oh, bummer. And then they both laughed. And if you watch, if you ever see the video, the two of them laughed for a little bit before that's what happened.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Well, now I'm gonna pull it up and watch it again. So that that's awesome. Yeah, I yeah, I I can't think of anyone that was a better representative for not only veterans, retirees, but just letter carriers in general. I I I mean, as proud as you were to be there, I I was so proud to see you there. And it was uh just like I said, it was the perfect person for the the the position and the job to be done. So thank you. Thank you for doing that. It was awesome. And and I didn't tell you beforehand that I was gonna throw that at you. That was a curveball. So thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Uh I knew you wanted to ask.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

So oh yeah, I I've been I've been chomping at the bit on that one. Um, so you know, once again, you've you've seen a lot of stuff. You've been around for a minute and you've seen a lot of stuff. Um if you know, there's someone listening, which obviously there will be, um, and you know, they're thinking about, you know, maybe I want to step up and do something. What would be something that you would give that person as a piece of advice to kind of get them on the right path?

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Um, the first thing, and I've heard a lot of people say this on your podcast, is start going to your uni meetings. That's the very first thing. And if you're already doing that and it's really starting to interest you, then you need to um step up for some of the jobs that pop up. You know, you don't need to go straight to president, you don't need to go straight to shop steward. In fact, shop steward might not be what you even want to do. Um, there's so many opportunities. And um there's also leadership academy. More women in that leadership academy. Um and that's a a really great opportunity to see you know a fuller picture of the postal service and um I mean postal service, not the postal service, NELC, and um you know, figure out where you fit potentially. So um yeah, uh advocating is not for everybody, but there are so many more jobs than that. There's treasure's jobs, there's secretary, uh reporting secretary jobs, there's I mean, you name it, there's all kinds of jobs. And um, so find a fit that's good for you and um look for people that are gonna support you, and um if you can hook up with a mentor, that's the best way to go. Um so you know, I I always say that I'm not gonna be here forever. That's what I said about the vice president's job. Um each one needs to teach one. And if you're the president of your branch, hopefully you're teaching somebody how to do that job. If you're the VP, you know, you know what that job entails, and somebody asking you, tell. Um, you know, just let everybody know how to do things and uh share your knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

When you get there.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Yeah, that always reminds me of um the final, like the final statements of week three of leadership that last morning before we're doing our uh uh graduation. Um, all the facilitators kind of you know give their last little bit of advice. And um my my personal facilitator, Chris Wittenberg, um, and I think I've said it on here before, but I just thought it was so profound. Um, and I'm now really trying to follow that, is he said that you know, you think about your career in the NALC as an escalator, you're going up and you see there's an end to it. He said, when you get to the top of it, if you're a leader, and if you get to the top of that thing and you look, turn around and look down behind you on that escalator and it's empty, you failed. You need a full escalator behind you. You uh, you know, you mentor, you get people in those positions, you get people involved. And when you get off of that escalator, there should be somebody right behind you and behind them and all the way down that thing. And uh I I really took that to heart, and I'm really personally gonna try to do that. And I know that you have definitely done that in your career, and uh, you're still not at the top, you're still riding that escalator up. So that that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Um I think I've gotten there.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Well, we don't want you to get off the escalator, we want you to stay on there a little longer. We appreciate all you do. Um I'm I'm out of questions. Uh, so all I'll do is just throw it back to you, ask you if there's anything I missed, anything you want to add. The floor is yours.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

No, I I just want to say that you know, I I'm I'm gonna admit this. I'm going on 70 years old, and there's always something for somebody to do. Everybody. So um I I just gotta say, just keep on in there, keep helping your union out, whatever place you can, how you can. Because uh it is a union brotherhood and sisterhood, and we're only gonna get there if we remain a family. So yep.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

That's that's perfect. Well, Annette, I uh I I don't I I feel like I should call you Miss Mrs. Taylor because I feel like you're you're like royalty in the in the union. I I do. I I I've from the first time I ever met you when I was up at DC, you've been so kind to me. I've seen you uh I believe we ran into each other in Boston. You went out of your way to come over and say hi to me. Um I can't I'm assuming you're gonna be in LA. I I would sure hope so. And uh I will definitely be seeking you out. Um but thank you so much for doing this for me. This is this is a truly an honor for me to talk to you today and and get to hear your story. Um and thank you to everybody that listens to the podcast and be safe and be kind of