The History of Female Leadership in the NALC
This podcast’s purpose is to give a history of women who have stepped into leadership roles within the National Association of Letter Carriers, and discuss the leaders of now and into the future.
The History of Female Leadership in the NALC
Bethany Katzer
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This episode features Bethany Katzer, President of Branch 649, Watertown, Wisconsin.
Welcome to the History of Female Leadership in the NALC podcast. I'm Craig Schaefer. I'm a city carrier in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, branch 1015. Today I am excited to have a sister from Wisconsin. If you don't mind, go ahead and introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_00Hi, my name is Bethany Katzer. I'm from Watertown, Wisconsin, branch 649.
SPEAKER_02All right. And how long have you been with the NALC?
SPEAKER_00Since 2017, when I started with the post office.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um so let's go back to 2017, well, a little prior to 2017. What uh brought you to the postal service in the first place?
SPEAKER_00My husband and I had just had our first kid um in 2016. And the job that we were working at, we had to work opposite shifts. Um, just both kind of wanted to change. And so I wound up applying for the post office and uh getting accepted. It was something in uh back in the mid-2000s, I had thought about applying at the post office, but just never did it. So um in 2017, I decided to and got hired on.
SPEAKER_02Nice. Better late than never. Glad you're here.
SPEAKER_00Love it. Glad I did it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, so um was there, you know, a lot of people I talked to, uh, there was a certain thing that happened, and sometimes it's not. And but uh was there what was the reason or what was the cause of you deciding to pursue a leadership role in the NALC?
SPEAKER_00Well, ironically, when I joined the post office, I almost didn't join the union. I had never been a part of a union. Um my dad was a part of a union, but it was the typical, you know, they they save people's jobs that shouldn't have a job, they tell you how to vote, that type of stuff. So it was it was more of a negative con um connotation for me. So I came home, talked to my husband. He's like, well, just join it. Who cares? You know, so I joined, and the first few years I really had no involvement with the union whatsoever. And then um, one day I was going to visit my my brother, and I had off next to the back to the holiday, and my manager had told me, you can't have it off. Um so and he's and he said, if you take off, you're gonna be A-WOL, we could fire you, and not knowing any of you know the contractual stuff, it scared me. So at that point, I didn't even know we had a regional office. Um, so I wound up finding out about the regional office and I called them and got advice, and fortunately had a really good coworker that was super nice volunteered to come in and work for me on his day off so that I could make my flight and go see my brother. So once that was kind of the kickoff of starting my union career. Um after that, people started coming up to me asking me, you know, what what the rules are and and all that kind of stuff. And I would I called the regional office probably at least one time a week. Unfortunately for me, my region is really good. There, there are some awesome people up there, and they would answer my phone call. And um it just I started learning and people started asking, and I just kind of got thrown in. Our our president stepped down, so then the vice president moved up to the president, and I got um put in the position of the vice president for that last six months term, and then after that, um I was elected to be the president, and I don't know, it's it's been a fun ride since.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, definitely. Um, and you kind of have gone into the next one. Uh, what positions have you held?
SPEAKER_00Um, I held the vice president for six months and then I became president, and then I'm also the Southeast District Representative for the state of Wisconsin. So not not many positions, but no, that's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it it's you got thrown right into the fire. You didn't even you didn't slowly go into it. You just jumped right in head first there.
SPEAKER_00When I got thrown in, I had no clue what an 8190 was, I had no clue what bylaws were, anything like that. So if you're out there and you're new and you don't know, don't be afraid to do it. You can learn as you go and don't be afraid to make those mistakes. Because trust me, I made plenty of them. But as long as you learn from them, they're just mistakes, they're not failures. It's failure don't learn from the mistakes that you make. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02And so, you know, you you're the president. What do you what are your duties as president of your branch? Or if and also I'm gonna go ahead and say this one as well because I'm not sure that we've had a district rep for the state association on before. So if you don't mind, also, you know, give us a brief overview of both of your positions.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well, as a president, I am a small branch. We have about 30 members retired and active. So I pretty much am a jack of all trades. I help with the food drive. Um, you know, the we do a Veterans Day banquet every year, put that together. Um, right now I'm currently in the midst of updating our bylaws because they hadn't been touched since like I think the 70s or 80s. Pretty much doing everything as the branch president. Um, and then as the Southeast District rep, um, we put on a district meeting once a year um so that the NBA and the state officers can come and speak to people locally and and get the you know message out about the union and what's going on and and what to look for and that kind of stuff. And then I also do try to go into the different branches in my district and talk about Lick PIF and and just anything that they want to talk about. So just kind of be there, be there to assist them. I mean, I've got really good branches in my district, so and really good leadership in the state of Wisconsin. Um, so I don't get a lot of phone calls reaching out, but um, I take them when I do and and just try to help out wherever I can.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Um the state association is obviously obviously the legislative arm of the NALC. And so, you know, I know a lot of people are not really into politics and everything, but in a in a general idea, it's it's if you're not into politics, that's fine. But we have legislation that directly affects us as letter carriers, and it's super important to know what that is, and those district meetings, um, that's where you're there for is to just lay it out on the line, say, hey, this isn't this isn't uh you know a party thing. This is a your livelihood and your and possibly your life with some of the legislation we have out there. So yeah, I mean, I I sorry, I didn't mean to jump in there, but that's very I I'm I'm very passionate about the political fund and the legislative aspect of the you know the NALC. So yeah, I thank you for kind of clarifying all of that stuff. It's it's super important.
SPEAKER_00No problem. And I I fire people like you because I'm not I don't consider myself a super political person. Um, in fact, the first time I went and and spoke to um the red representative's aide, I was so nervous. Because I I'm it's not in my strong suit for sure. And um fortunately I had somebody go with me that really just kind of helped and eased that. But once I went, it's it wasn't that bad. Looking back, I had nothing to be nervous about. So again, even if you're not a political person, just jump in, get active, because like you just said, it does affect us. And it took me a while to realize that. But from the beginning, four years ago to now, my opinion has changed. And we need this, we need the political side. We need, you know, to get members on board and truly see that this stuff is is is um nonpartisan issues and which side of the aisle you're on, it affects you personally. And we need your help to to reach both Republicans and Democrats.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_00To get them on board with what we want.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, you know, the political fund, you know, I I you always get that kickback like, well, I don't know what the money, if it's going to go for people that I support. Well, the money goes for people the the political fund, the political arm of the NALC does not care about any social issues. I mean, we don't deal with those. All we concern ourselves with is making sure that we have a job and that we can come to work safely and legislation that is going to help the letter carrier, and that's it. And it doesn't matter if they have a D, an R, or an I next to their name. If they support us, we support them. We don't look at any of their other votes, we look at how they vote for our stuff and stuff that's going to protect us. And so, you know, it's super important to get that word out. And and like you said, you may not know about it. And then once somebody like you comes in and says, hey, this is what it's about, then it's like, oh, that's I get it now. I think a lot of times it's just misunderstandings on it. So, you know, it is super important. Thank you for, like I said, thanks for sharing that stuff with us. Um, so you know, you you uh are the president of your branch, you've been the vice president, you're southeast district district rep of Wisconsin. Um, Southeast, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes, correct, Southeast.
SPEAKER_02I was I was Southeast District Rep of Missouri.
SPEAKER_00There we go.
SPEAKER_02We got something yes. Um in all of your duties and just your job in in general, um, you know, I hear a lot that a lot of times that, you know, new employees in general, but you know, females seem to get it a lot more as well. Um, have you dealt with any kind of discrimination, harassment? Um, and it could be coming from management on the workroom floor, it could be coming from unfortunately, even uh our union siblings. Have you dealt with anything like that?
SPEAKER_00Um I I don't necessarily know that it would be discrimination, um, like a high level of discrimination, but yes, um, my management, which I always say, and I get it from one of my mentors, you're always where you're supposed to be. And when I first started before I had got active in the union, I was pregnant with my second child and I wanted to be a tool for B. I when I came in, my post office, one of my first days on the job, my manager was yelling and berating a carrier. And coming from, you know, outside the post office, it's a whole other world. Like if that would have happened out there, she would have been walked off the floor immediately. And so coming in and seeing that, I wanted to change the post office. And I thought I could change the post office through management at that time. And um my postmaster at the time said, Well, we're not gonna make you, we're we're not gonna let you be a 204B because you're gonna be out on maternity leave. Well, I knew what they said was illegal, but I'm just I didn't want to make waves. I was still new enough. I'm like, okay, you know, it's it's fine. Um and then uh about a year later, when I came back, I wanted to get a transfer closer to home also. And I had been out, I had a little complication with the pregnancy, so I'd been out about six months. So my attendance did not look good, but it was all FMLA covered. And um, they refused me the transfer because of my FMLA absences. And the the irony and and the funny situation about that is I would not be the union advocate that I am today if it wasn't for those two things happening. And I feel like I have found my it sounds so cliche, but I feel like I've found my calling with being involved in the union. I I have the personality of stand up for the people that can't stand up for themselves, which is exactly what the union is. And I have met some awesome people, like not just brothers and sisters, but friends, like best friends in the union that I wouldn't have without this. So it's one of those where at the time I was a little bit discouraged, but okay. And looking back at it, thank you so much. Yep, because I wouldn't be where I am without those two things happening. I I wouldn't have gotten involved in the union and and be as as passionate about it as what I am. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, management has a tendency to um cause themselves some long-term pain by messing with the wrong people a lot of times. And you know, like you said, if you would have just if they would have put you in for that transfer and you'd have gone, and if they would have uh, you know, done a few other things a little differently, you may have never even thought, oh, I don't need that, I'm good. And now you're there leading your branch. So uh yeah, they it's it's they do what they do best, screw up. That's that's it right there.
SPEAKER_00It's really funny because we just went through a J WIP process in my branch um back in in January, February-ish. And um and and I had to give kudos to my to my RA that helped us go through that because he he did a really good job. Um and that manager is got a detail someplace else because of all so he he's he's gone, just we'll put it, we'll put it that way. Um, because of just the the type of leadership he had um was not good leadership in in the post office. And so he um is now out of our office. Uh good to be possessed at all this. So it's it's kind of funny. He's the one that had to leave.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Good.
SPEAKER_00It could have been, you know, vice versa.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, good. I'm glad that maybe that'll take a little stress off of your your office and everything. I'm sure that you get a toxic manager and it just kind of ruins everything.
SPEAKER_00Um it was it was it was so bad in our office, the the toxicity and just, you know, people would go home crying. And um, you know, at one point I had my management spreading lies saying that I stole money from the union just to try to discredit me and and pit carriers against carriers. And fortunately, I had a uh a carrier in my office that came to me and told me the situation, and I was able to straighten it out and be like, no, that is that is not true. But even in that point, like for myself, it was it was really detrimental to me at the time because I take pride in my integrity and to have it questioned in an unfounded way was was really hurtful. And you know, my husband, I remember being up till two o'clock in the morning talking to him one day about, you know, sometimes the downs you go through as a union leader is is it worth it? And I didn't want to, I didn't want to quit, but I still had that question of is it worth it? But the people that I had that I've met through the union that are my mentors and and and my husband picked me, helped pick me back up and and you know, carry through. And now I mean as bad as it is to say, my carriers clapped when this guy was gone. That's that's how bad it was. Like out in the open on the workroom floor and cat clapped for the new OIC that came in.
SPEAKER_01Good. Yeah, it's uh you can get through it.
SPEAKER_00There there is there is an end, it's longer than what you want.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Well, um, you know, another thing that's uh that kind of comes along with um taking on a leadership position in the NALC is it's sometimes a little time consuming. And it a lot of times is not just time that you spend on the clock, it's time that you spend away, whether it's you know, coming home and having to, you know, work on stuff, taking phone calls or traveling, you know, whatever you're doing. Has uh the time that you have invested in the union caused any issues for you and your family or your friends?
SPEAKER_00No, not really. My family has understood. They they see the passion that I have for the union and they support me. My husband supports me wholeheartedly. Um a lot of things, being a smaller branch, a lot of the things that I've I've done, um, I've had to pay for out of pocket. And he he has always supported me. In fact, it's kind of funny. Like I he collects old video games, so I go and find him an old video game. That's our thing. So no, I I I have had the opposite where you know I've I've had him and other family and friends just support me and in what I'm doing. And it makes it makes a difference having that support behind you.
SPEAKER_02For sure, for sure. Um, well, and I have a feeling my next question probably will involve some of these people you're just discussing. Um, what do you like to do when you do shut the laptop, turn off your phone, call it a day, or go on vacation, days off? What do you like to do to unwind and relax? Do you have hobbies?
SPEAKER_00I have three little girls, and so we like to play board games, go to the parks, play stuff like that. Um, for I when I need the alone time, I'll read, or sometimes I'll just watch a movie with my husband. So, but most of the off time is centered around family and and just making memories with them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, definitely. Uh I have two daughters and they grow up really quick. It goes from like they need you, they need you, they need you, to they just need a few dollars, and that's that's where it kind of goes to.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, it's starting to get there and it makes me a little bit sad.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I mean, it it there's like the good things and the bad things. Like, I live in a very rural area. So uh when my first daughter got turned 16, if you know, we don't have a grocery store in town or whatever, so if we needed something, instead of me having to get up and go drive 20 minutes, hey, we need you to go run to the store and do this. So that that's the good side of it. But then it it's also a lot of uh kind of restless evenings waiting for them to get home. And now I remember now I know what my mother went through when I was, you know, late on curfew or things like that. You know, what is going on? What's going on? So yeah, it's it's it's got its benefits, and but it's also, you know, there's also the other stuff that comes along with it, but I wouldn't trade it. It was it's been a fun ride for sure. Um, so you know, you you've had a bit of a crazy trip through your postal career as quickly as you've gone from, you know, starting out in you uh did you say 2017, I believe?
SPEAKER_00Yes, that was when I was hired on.
SPEAKER_02So you you're coming up on 10 years and you're already your branch president. So you've you've seen, I mean, you've obviously experienced a lot of things and you've seen a lot of stuff. Um, if there is someone that is listening to this right now and they're kind of, you know, thinking about uh maybe going to their union and their branch and saying, hey, I'd like to get involved, what would be a piece of advice that you would give that person?
SPEAKER_00I've I've got a couple of them. One, just do it. Just ask. Don't, like I said before, don't be afraid to fail. Don't, don't let fear stop you from playing the game. That old saying, you know, um, you can learn as you go. And and in order to learn, get those people around you that are going to help you. Um, mentorship to me is something that is just it's it's a passion of mine. Um, you know, I have a core group of four, five, six people that I would not be where I'm at without those people helping me learn from literally, like I said before, not knowing what an 8190 is as the president of a branch and having to figure it all out. Those were the people that I I relied upon. And don't be afraid to, you know, when I when I went to my first regional training, I didn't I didn't know anybody, but I had been given a name, you know. Her name's Belinda. Go, go talk to Belinda. She's really smart. So I just went up out of the blue and I'm like, hey, you're Belinda, right? You know, I I was told to get your name and number if I have any questions. And now, like, I don't think there's a week that goes by that we don't talk. And it's not always about work, it's it's there's a friendship there too. And, you know, um, so don't don't be afraid to reach out to those people, even even if you're intimidated, or because you know, I I tend to be intimidated by really smart people because I'm not smart. And so just reach out to them anyways, because you know, there's another lady I know that is a little more reserved, and she always impressed me with how how smart she was, and how just all around she could do anything. And I went up to her, and now we're friends too. We we talk pretty much every week. So it's it's not even just about getting the knowledge of the union, it's it's getting the friendships too that help you when you're down and are happy for you when you're in the highs of being a union leader. Because just being realistic, it's gonna happen. You're gonna have the lows, you're gonna have have the highs. This is a thankless job that you spend hours of your own time doing, and and getting those people to surround you is is key to it. You know, like I said, there was times when, you know, I'd always preface my my conversation with I'm not gonna quit, but this would be a time that I would quit, you know, and and getting those people to get you through those times because you you need to be tenacious as a union leader to the good times and A bad and and you need those people around you that are just gonna be there for you, you know. When when you're crying or when you're cheering with excitement, it's you need the people with you, and so finding those mentors, not being afraid to just out of the blue, go up to people and talk to them. If you see somebody as you go to your trainings or, you know, as you go to different things that you see qualities in them that you admire and and you feel like makes them a good union leader, reach out to them. I mean, I have um a guy that I just every time when I started, I'd I'd look at the Facebook sites and he would always be posting contractual um comments and supporting it with contractual pictures, you know. So you knew it was from the contract. And I just, you know, cold out of the blue messaged him, hey, can you help me with this? And now, you know, I talk to him all the time too. We're friends. And I I genuinely feel like the people in the union across the country want to help each other. We want to be there for the smaller branches like myself, who didn't really have someone in the branch that I could reach out to to figure out how to do things. I had to find people outside of my branch, outside of my state, you know, and and I have never once been told, don't contact me, you know. So don't be afraid to reach out to these people. I mean, like I said, alluded to earlier, I called the regional office when I first started, probably once a week. And I'd always be like, Oh, I'm sorry if I'm bugging you. Not once did they ever make me feel like I was bothering them or that they didn't have time for me. And that is from what I have seen in my perspective, that is our union as a whole. You know, the the negativity that comes across is it's yes, you're gonna have your bad apples, but that is not our union. Our union is people that want to help. And if you want to learn, there is a spot for you. You just have to have the motivation to learn and and get those people that are gonna help you through the downs and the ups of your union career. And and just keep keep pressing forward, you know, through the bad, through the good, um, keep pressing forward. And I I I guess that's I could go on all day about these because those are topics that I'm very passionate about. Education is knowledge, and knowledge is power. And with with the knowledge, like you can change an office. And and I'll give you one illustration to close on. When I started um about four years ago, really, with the union, um my branch, the the people in my branch are awesome people, but we were not union-minded. About a month ago, management changed our start time, and we showed in an act of solidarity, and and it it might seem silly, but for for our branch to to show an act of solidarity and walk in a minute before we were supposed to clock in in a single file line, quietly grab our scanners and then go back out and punch out, that was amazing for a branch like mine. You you will get through the other side. If if you're a leader, a new leader, and you're going through questioning things or or you don't know how to um, you don't think you can get it get through what you're going through. You can't just keep putting one step in front of one foot in front of the other and just keep taking a step and and get those people, like I said, that are going to encourage and help you. And you you can do it, you can get through the other side because I I speak from experience. Um it's it's doable. Yes. Yeah, I I I could go on, so I will I will cut myself short.
SPEAKER_02No, no. Uh I I'm just sitting here shaking my head, agreeing with everything you're saying. I the the mentoring, both finding a good set of mentors, and then realizing that once you get that, you need to share that knowledge with other people, and you become the mentor. And I'm sure that you have plenty of people you're mentoring, just like you've mentioned that you have your mentors. Um, that's one of the big things. Basically, the overwhelming uh overview of Leadership Academy is how important mentoring is, you know, and making as a leader mentoring. And so yeah, it's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00To go to that in August, and I'm really excited, excited about the Leadership Academy, and I'm I'm I'm looking forward to how that's going to change me and help me to be a better leader.
SPEAKER_02Well, I sorry, my just trying to that was the no, it's all right. No, the the leadership academy is like the greatest uh training ever. I mean, it is amazing, and I would not trade it for the world, but I am not envious of you just getting ready to start it either. I mean, it is it's it's work, major work. But um, I'm out of questions. Do you have anything else you'd like to add?
SPEAKER_00Uh anything I missed? No, I I don't believe so. I I think I covered everything. Just I guess I would close by just reiterating get those people around you that are gonna help you. Um, they're they're out there. So just all right.
SPEAKER_02Well, uh, thank you so much for joining me. I'm I apologize. I had a little bit of my scheduling was all jacked up. It was my fault, and you just you you're like, that's all right. And I appreciate it. I apologize to you though again. Um, but thank you for jumping on here with me. I know you're ready to go hang out with the kiddos and enjoy your day. Um, so you have a great day. Thank you so much, Bethany. I really appreciate you uh for putting up with me and dealing with my craziness.
SPEAKER_00I guess I would say one more thing that said at the beginning. Thank you for having me on. Um, I know there's a lot of people that have come before and a lot of people that are gonna come after me that that are good leaders. I I don't always see myself as a leader, um, but you've had some phenomenal people on, and I know you're gonna have more on. So I appreciate you allowing me the opportunity to be on this.
SPEAKER_02Well, thank you for being an addition to all the other phenomenal ladies that you are also a phenomenal lady and a phenomenal leader. Thank you for jumping on here with me. And uh, you 100% belong right here with all of the other ladies, and I guarantee you they would all agree. And um, so thank you again, and thank you for sharing some time and your story with me. And everybody else, thanks for listening. Be safe out there and be kind of a good idea.