Jennifer Anderson

This episode features Jennifer Anderson, President of Branch 512, Waterloo, Iowa.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Welcome to the History of Female Leadership in the NALC podcast. I'm Craig Schaefer. I'm a city carrier in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, branch 1015. Today I'm excited to have another ERT sister with me. If you don't mind, go ahead and introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Hello, Craig. I'm very honored to be on your podcast. Sorry it took so long for me to free up the time for you, but I think this is awesome what you're doing. I saw you present that. I know you presented it as your leadership project, but I think it's just a great endeavor and I'm very humbled and honored to be here. My name is Jennifer Anderson. I am from branch 512 in Waterloo, Iowa. I am currently the uh branch president there, but I've definitely had a lot of different hats on and still do. I've been with the Postal Service for 33 years, believe it or not. Uh we should probably file agreements for all those child labor laws that were breaking back then. But um I've been a letter carrier for 30 of those years. So I've always been an ALC member, of course. Um, and I've been in officer roles for probably about 20 years in my brand.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

All right. Okay, well, um, we'll just kind of start at the beginning. What brought you to the postal service in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Well, interesting story. My dad was also a letter carrier. Um my sister is currently a letter carrier. So uh we're second generation letter carriers. And you know, I did start, even though I joke around about like, I don't know why they're hiring eight-year-olds. Uh but to be honest, I wasn't much older than that. I was 19 years old when I started. Uh so you know, looking back now, I was a kid. And I don't think I had a lot of direction back then uh as far as like what I wanted to do. I did pretty well in high school, you know. I I was one of those kids, I guess, that I was okay with being okay. I made the honor roll with not a lot of effort, which I don't know that's always a good thing. Um, and then I went off to college because that's what everybody was doing. And I thought, well, let me go to University of Northern Iowa, right there in Cedar Falls, next to Waterloo where I grew up. And I kind of just partied. I will be honest with you. I just didn't take it that too serious. And I thought, like high school, that hey, no problem, this will be easy. I'll just show up to take the test. I'll still do fine. And quickly realized it was a little bit different. And so my dad was not too happy with me. He uh at the time, this just kind of goes to say how we are a pretty good blue-collar, like paid, you know, career because I couldn't even get a loan. I remember that. I couldn't get uh approved for a loan, a grant, anything. So my dad was basically just writing a check out to the college for that semester that I went. And I was on academic probation very first semester. So to tell you the truth, looking back, it's shocking I passed everything. So um, but he wasn't too thrilled at all. So I remember the conversation like it was yesterday. He said, you know, Jennifer, um, I think that you need a little life lesson. So what we're gonna do is the post office is actually looking for some casual employees. And so I'm going to have you take a semester off and I'm gonna kind of show you what your life may look like if you choose to continue this behavior and not take college seriously. So, of course, now it's a running joke, like thanks, dad. Um, but I will be honest, I love being a letter carrier. Um, when I started out as a casual, it just kind of all snowballed from there. I like I was working as a mail handler. They could see that I was young and ambitious and and I worked hard. So basically they were all encouraging me, you should take the postal exam. And so I did end up taking the postal exam and I scored pretty high. And they couldn't hire me as a letter carrier because I also may have had too many speeding tickets while it's happening. So this is please, I hope not everybody's listening to this like, oh, she's a real degenerate. Like, what is our feature? But anyway, I have I've I've had matured, I've matured since then. But so anyway, I got on as uh a mail handler and then transferred to a clerk. And then of course, to me, the letter carrier craft is the best craft in the postal service. Um, I always wanted to be a letter carrier, and so most of the 33 years for 30 years, I have been a letter. So yeah, that's kind of my story of how I got in. And I don't know how many people can really say this, but at the I'm nearing the end of my career. And if I could go back and do it differently, I would not, as far as career-wise. You know, we all have regrets and other things, but I've just loved everything about this job, what is provided for my family, what I've been able to do. And so I honestly can say, um, I thank my dad and be like, thank you for making me go get that job at the post office because it's kind of brought me to where I'm at now.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah, yeah. Well, uh, we share that in common. I started as a casual as well, and I think that that makes me kind of appreciate where I'm at now because um uh that was not a good position.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Eight dollars an hour. I remember saying that. So I don't know how to wait a second.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Did you say eight?

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Eight dollars, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

They started me at six.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

I mean, see I got ripped off. Wow. I actually took a pay cut from Walmart to come to work at the post office. I was making six and a quarter or six fifty, so yeah, I was pushing carts for six fifty an hour, and I came and started uh slinging mail for uh six bucks an hour, and yeah, there was a few days that I was just about ready to call it a career really quickly. But like you, like you, I'm glad I stuck around it. It was uh definitely worth it. Um so you know, obviously you have ascended to the presidency of your branch, but um in the beginning, what caused you to even decide to pursue a role in the NALC?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Um, you know, I was thinking about that. I uh because I think in my early years in the postal service or as a care a letter carrier, I don't, I wasn't super involved. You know, I would go to some meetings and stuff. Um, but I was I've always been very opinionated. And so I believe um, I think it was Tom Ken that first convinced me to be a steward. And it probably was a lot of that, you know, I like to call it passion. Um, but I would always I would challenge things. I I tried to um read the contract, especially Article eight. I've always been a big overtime, I'm that person, I'm overtime hog. I always wanted the overtime. And so I think he kind of recognized, well, hey, you know, I could use her because she seems to really know Article Eight. She's very passionate about what she's saying. And so he convinced me to come on as a steward. And all of those of us that have been stewards know that's where all the real grind and work happens. Um, I laugh at some of my old like first grievances. I'll come across them sometimes. Uh, for my leadership, for my second leadership project, I actually did where I organized my branch records. And oh boy, was that I mean, we had some stuff in there from way back. And so it was kind of nostalgic and just reading some of my first work is cringe worthy, you know. And uh, but I'll tell you what, I always was passionate about it. I was thankful for the opportunity, and from there, it just uh, you know, I was a steward for many, many, I mean, I want to say probably 10 to 12 years. And then uh Tom Ken was a very great uh president, and he's one of those guys that he's a good mentor and he's not afraid to embark his knowledge on, you know, he's not he he wants everybody to be as good as him or better type, you know. So he definitely um before he retired, he wanted to make sure um that he was gonna have somebody to come into his spot. So I worked as vice president for a couple of years, and then while he was still there, he's like, I want to move you into president so that way I'm still here, you know, if you need me. And so that was great. And so that's kind of how you know I I ran pretty much unopposed. So I mean, there really hasn't been anybody running against me. Um, but I enjoy what I do and representing my members. And I've been president now for I'm really bad with time. It gets away from me, but I'd say four or five years now, I've been the branch president.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Okay. All right. Um, yeah, that uh what you were saying about Tom is literally what they teach you in leadership, what you want to do. You want to have somebody that's right there, you know, more than one person, but definitely that person that is gonna take your spot and run with it even better than you. And so, yeah, it's the epitome of leadership right there.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Exactly. I always say that. It's like it's it's one thing. I mean, you want to do well when you're there, but it's like what happens after you leave, that's your real legacy, like how how they perform after you're not there. Because if you're not bringing up people or mentoring them or looking for that talent, then you're leaving your branch, you know, high and dry.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yep. Yep. And um this next question is uh we I I hope everybody has plenty of refreshments and everything because I'm gonna ask you, what positions have you held in the NALC?

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Oh boy, I had to, yeah, I was kind of trying to scribble them down here so I wouldn't forget. Um, you know, I said I was the steward vice president president. Um, I also do do the academy, as you know, like right now, I happen to be in Urbindale, uh, doing one-on-one this week with uh one student in the class. So he's getting some special attention. Um, and I've been doing the academy instructing for quite a while. Uh, I love that. I also do the union presentation, as I know you said you do as well. So when the academy is in Waterloo, which we we have one there, I will go in and speak on the union and do the PowerPoint and get people signed up. And I love that, you know. Um, I love it when they're ahead on their modules because like the instructors will say, Hey, we need you to really talk. And I can talk, I have stories, so I can tell the stories. And I just am really passionate about getting people signed up and talking about um our union. And I I'm very um honest as well and transparent about things that maybe aren't great right now with the union. And I think people kind of relate to that, and I think that helps sometimes. I don't go in there and just say, hey, this is you know so great. I I go in there and I'm honest. Like these are the things that we're trying to achieve. These are things that you maybe find that you get upset about. Um, and so I think that kind of resonates well. Um, so I do that. Um, I used to be OJI. I stopped doing that because I was doing way too much. Um I am I for the state association in Iowa, I'm the a lickel, I'm the second congressional district lickle. Um that's relatively new. This is uh my just first term doing that. Um I was part of the rank and file that bargaining committee, the second group that went in. So I was very honored to be chosen for that. Um, I really enjoyed that. And anything you're doing, I guess at more of a national level or a national level assignment, um, you really get to meet a lot of different people and network. And that's one of the best things about the NALC, in my opinion, is just meeting those other people that are just like yourself in a lot of ways, where you know, we're so busy, but all of us will answer text or, you know, hey, I remember I met this person that is really good at this. And that's just really great. And that experience was was wonderful. ERT, of course, my emergency response uh team. That is, you know, Leslie, I know last week or your last podcast was talking on that. Uh, it's just tremendous. Um, that program alone, and I echo what she said about, you know, even if you're touching one or two people, it's worth it. And just having that face of somebody that, you know, we do know we've been in their shoes and we know what it's like. And just like I think you said on that podcast, the mail just keeps coming, it keeps moving, right? Uh, just like all the Seinfeld fans out there, you know, Newman says it just keeps coming and coming. You know, everybody's like, what's so stressful about the mail? Um, but it's true. It's kind of like we can relate because we know that no matter how sad everybody is, like they got to get up and they got to put that uniform on. And not only that, but they got to go out in the public eye, where especially if it's a tragedy that happened nearby. Like I was deployed to Minneapolis when there was that school shooting that happened right by the Postal Service. And it really affected a lot of the carriers because I mean they could literally hear the gunshot, they were right there. And not only having to deal with all that, but then of course, as letter carriers, we all know we're we're the face of the public. We're the only ones some people talk to during the day, like the elderly. So if you are traumatized by it and you're also going to be asked about it, just because that's what everybody's talking about out there, right? Um, and so just kind of knowing that, and I mean, that has been a wonderful experience. And I think that the ERT is probably one of my favorite assignments as well. Um what else? Leadership Academy. Yep, classic 29, one of a kind that was uh we had our little class uh motto like Ralph. I don't know if you've seen the little stuffed Ralph that uh that we uh they actually still mail that through the mail to different. I I haven't received Ralph yet. He hasn't got to spend any time with me, but it's kind of a running thing with our class where they where's where's Waldo? Where's Ralph, you know? And so uh the different members that were or uh people in the class, they'll they'll take turns having the our little stuffed Ralph, our little mascot. So that was also a great experience as well. Very humbling, as you know. You walk in and you're so nervous the first day. I just remember, and I I'm not somebody that usually gets nervous, but it's like my heart's like beating out of my chest, and you just have this feeling of like, do I belong here? Like, how am I here? You know, and everybody around you is so accomplished, and then you hear them talk about you, and you're just like, really? Like, and it's just a very humbling experience, also great. Uh, all the facilitators there are great people, and just again, that networking that you get when you're on these assignments and the people that you meet, it's just incredible.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yep. Yeah, that uh going in that Sunday night, that first night, week one, and you walk in the room and there's 29 people sitting there, and uh I'll never forget walking in there and going, Why am I here again? Uh I didn't there's one of these things is not like the others, and that is me, you know. But you know, that's the crazy part is when you get to talk start talking to these people, everybody else was nervous too. And uh I I still think that uh I I I think everyone in my class was in a league well above me, but no not one person ever made me feel like I wasn't in their league. So it was it, it was super, it was just an awesome experience. And same with ERT.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Yeah, and the support, especially with leadership they got. I mean, they tell you, you know, you go in there like you aren't gonna believe it now, but when you guys get leave this in three weeks, you will be feel such a close family like tie to these, and you're kind of like, okay, you're hearing the words, but it is incredible how you just like grow together. Um, you always have the the ones that maybe struggle a little bit more in the beginning, like with the the speaking and stuff, and everybody just really rallies behind that person, and you see that growth, and you're just like beaming with pride, and it's just it brings you so close, it's incredible. Until you I hope that everybody out there that's in lead in a leadership position gets that opportunity someday to be a part of one of those classes because it it really is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Yeah, it was definitely there was no one left behind. We, you know, everybody I'd never seen where it was such support. And that's you know, Ed would always say, this is a room of love, you know, and everybody in here, if you're gonna fail, fail here because we're all gonna pick you up. And uh it was it was very true. It was it was wild. I'd never thought that you could be like you said, when you walk in there and they say you're gonna these people are gonna be your people, and you're looking around going, I don't know any of these people now. They're so close. We you know, we are all on this uh group me chat and all that, you know, and it just it's it's just great. It just it's just an amazing program. Um so you know, you have a few to pick from, um, and you can talk about all of them, you can talk about whatever you want, but in your current position or positions, uh, what are your duties?

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Well, uh as branch president in Waterloo, I am chief firefighter. I'm just kidding, of a complete dumpster fire most days. Um, all joking aside though, you know, it is really about putting out fires constantly. Um, I love being branch president. I do delegate things pretty well. I have a great group, like my stewards are great, my vice president's great. Um, and you have to be able to do that. You have to be able to trust the people around you as well. So that's one thing I've gotten gotten better at is uh as busy as I am, I'm kind of forced to do it now, but just kind of letting go of some of that control. Um, but just on a daily basis, just uh putting out little fires, helping people. And a lot of what we do, uh, because I'm also formal A. So I do all the formal A's as well. Um, but and so that takes up a lot of time. And and I really am passionate about just that work. I do love just the the grind of filing grievances. I really do. That's my personality. Um, I like my husband says I should have been a lawyer, maybe. I mean, I definitely don't want to compare myself to a lawyer, but I do like getting my point across. I really pride myself on trying to settle things in-house because you know, I don't want to send it to Subby. I don't want to wait, you know. And so I will talk and talk and talk until I get my way a lot of times. And it's just something I'm very passionate. So I love that. And that is something though I'm working on trying to, I need to bring up my stewards also to do some formal A's. And that's one thing that I kind of have on my uh agenda and goal year or so. I have about four and a half years, I think, before I'm probably gonna retire as soon as I turn 57. Um, as much as I love everything about the job, it's just time, you know, that's 38 years in the postal service. Um, and as much as my husband will say that's too young to retire, I probably will retire. And so I need to work on having them come up and do the formal A's as well. A lot of what I do, uh, I don't even want credit for. You know, I think a lot of us as union officials, we're doing so many things behind the scenes that nobody even knows about. You know, we're getting those calls that it's not always a contractual grievance. Sometimes it's just somebody that needs to vent or somebody that wants you to listen to them, or they have something they want you to want to tell you in confidence. And um, I hope that I help them and I feel like I do, but I like want any credit for, or like even talking about it now is not comfortable for me, I guess. Um, but you're you are just constantly um trying to be available for everybody and kind of keep everything together. Of course, I run the branch meetings uh each month. And like I said, I have a really good support system in my branch though. So I as far as president duties, I don't feel overwhelmed. And it gives me that freedom to obviously this full list that I just gave you, all these other things that I am able to do as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

So yeah, and they I'm sure they pull you away from the office a lot with all the other stuff, and that is awesome that you have a crew that is right there to pick up the slack. So that that's but and I mean, like you said though, you're still a phone call away anytime you're doing anything. So that's that's also probably very refreshing to the rest of your your crew, you know, knowing that you're still there even when you're not. So yeah, that's that's uh that's a lot. That's it is a lot. Um the next question I have is kind of it it's kind of the darker part of the podcast, um, but it's important to ask. Um, you know, have you ever had any issues uh with management or even in our union with other you know union siblings with experiences of harassment or discrimination? And uh if so, how did you deal with it and do you feel like it was resolved?

SPEAKER_01 21:14

You know, that is a question, a great question, and I I knew it was coming and I thought long and hard about it. Um, and I want to be careful the way I answer this. I because I totally acknowledge that gender discrimination happens out there. I know that, and I would never like diminish any other woman's experiences or what's happened. Um, but my personal like journeying experience has been a lot different. I have not felt that I have been discriminated against um being a woman. And I think about it, like especially when I was getting ready to do this podcast, because I was raised, I have two brothers that they're twins, so it's kind of double trouble. They're only 15 months younger than me. So growing up with them, we were just super competitive. I felt like my whole life I have been kind of fighting for my spot right alongside them. And so I feel like it's giving me just this crazy like sense of just confidence and independence, where I don't, I won't allow that mindset. If I have been treated differently because I'm a woman, I haven't noticed it, I guess. Or I haven't let it. And this is not saying that people that do let it bother them, that there's no, there's nothing wrong with that. But I just I can't subscribe to that, I guess, in my brain. I don't, I haven't picked up on it. I just have this sense of uh I know my worth. I come in um and I feel like what I've achieved, I've deserved. And if not, I again I always say, especially with the NALC, it's democracy. If I'm not doing a great job, I would love somebody to run against me. And if they're better than me, they should have that position. And that's kind of uh, I also part of growing up, I think the older we get, I think we realize more and more that we are a product of our you know environment and our and our upbringing. As much as we may not like it at times, and you kind of come to terms of like it creates who you are as a person. My mother, um, I love her dear. My mother is wonderful. Uh, if you look up the word selfless in the dictionary, you will see her picture. Almost to a fault, though. Um, so my mom would give you the shirt off her back, and she has helped me tremendously. But she has also loved everybody around her much more than she has loved herself. And so seeing that and kind of seeing how she's kind of become a victim to some life circumstances because of that, and uh to put like maybe became a doormat or allowed herself to let people treat her a certain way, even sometimes us, because she allows it, you know, and and my dad, and I don't want to like lay on your psychiatrist's couch and get too deep into this. But I noticed this in my sister as well. As much as I love my mom and all her great qualities, I feel like I have just desperately and I've just had this burning, intense desire to completely do the opposite because I don't want to be vulnerable like that, or I don't want things to happen to me that have happened to her. And she's handled it with grace, and and she is absolutely wonderful. And I feel like it's maybe even a detriment to myself because all the great qualities that she has, maybe I need a little bit more of, right? I I'm not, I don't have, I'm not as sensitive, or I'm not, you know, there's certain qualities that I know that I need to work on that maybe hasn't not behooved me very well, like in personal relationships or marriages, but it's that feeling of just wanting to run the other way because I don't want that to happen to me, I guess is what I'm and I see that in my sister as well. So I think because of that just fierce independence, and I don't know if it's even warranted. I'm not here to say that I'm just this almighty or I don't need anything, but I do kind of just have this armor of like, hey, I I'm not going to be that victim in any way. And so when it comes to like the question of that like gender discrimination, I know it's there. And it saddens me that it is. And when I hear the stories, I'm just like, oh wow. And another thing, Craig, I guess to kind of add on to this, I was 19 when I started this job. And so, how wonderful is our union jobs? Because the fact that I haven't had to be like in a corporate situation or where that definitely probably is more prevalent. I'm in a union job where I'm getting paid the same as men. And no matter what race you are, you're getting paid the same. And that's wonderful. And that's what's so great about unionism and the job. And even in the NALC, I do not feel like I've been held back. I never want to feel like I am being uh treated less than because I'm a woman, but I also do not ever want to feel like I'm giving getting a leg up because I'm a woman. And that's just my personal thought on it. Um, and I don't want that to come off as offensive or that I'm not, I support feminism and all that, but I also feel like I want the best person for a position to get the position, regardless of their race or their gender. And that's just how I but the sad part is the reason why we have these things like quotas or certain percentages is because of that systemic discrimination that is out there. And that makes me even more upset, right? Because I don't think it behooves any of us to like, I don't want to feel like I'm getting treated like, hey, we need a woman. So maybe we're gonna look at her a little closer. I want to feel like to me, that's kind of a slap in the face. You know, I want to be treated equally. I want to only have a position if I'm best qualified. And I will say the NALC, like you look around. I mean, you obviously you've been doing this podcast, but it's amazing the female leadership in the NALC um and the male leadership, like everybody that I encounter, I feel like everybody does have an equal opportunity to move up into the in the NALC. Is that to say nobody has experiences with management or even in the union where they have felt those things? No, I I definitely know that that happens. Um, but I just don't, I can't think of things, personal things that I could share that I feel like have. And again, it may just be blind, oblivious to it, uh, because I just don't, my mind won't let me go there. Um, I will say though, if I can share something about my daughter, I have a daughter, she just got married. I'm very proud of her. Smart cookie, she's uh she has her master's degree and all that, and so she's more into some corporate positions, right? Uh, and her first job, she was experienced a little bit, and she's also very much like me. So she's not uh real emotional or anything, not that anything's wrong with that, but she's uh very strong-headed and all that. And so not a lot bothers her. But the first job she had, she would bring up things to me, uh, the like the boss would say that bothered her. And Craig, I'm kind of embarrassed even to admit it that I a lot of times they would say she would say things and I'd just be like, eh, you know, that's not that bad. Or, you know, I I also am very much I've always kind of been a guy's girl, to be honest. Or I just I let things slide off me. I use humor a lot. I I just and so I'm embarrassed that I at first, you know, she had told me a few things, and you know, I would listen to her and I'd validate it and stuff. And she wasn't destroyed by these comments or anything, but for I'll just give you an example. Like, uh, and he's the head boss of this company, and there's a lot of young women working there, and so a lot of them they're at that age where they're getting married and they're going on the bachelorette trips or they're doing the showers, and he would say things like, Well, how I don't know how you girls are affording to go on all these bachelorette trips. I know what I'm paying you, you know, and it's just like, what? And so she'd be so upset because she'd also say that, mom, it's just this good old boys' network, like all the guys in the office, they go golfing half the day. They're all getting paid more than, you know, and so it was just like an irritation she had. Well, then one day, this is the part that really got me. And like I said, I really had to check myself after this happened because I was like, you know what? Um, I need to be more sensitive to this issue, or I need to like recognize it, even though, like I said, I don't feel like I've been experiencing it much myself. But we were on a um, my son and my daughter and I get on three-way calls a lot over their one-hour lunch break. Of course, I'm on my no lunch and I'm delivering mail and I just always and my kids are super uh love them both, very good kids, very smart, but they're very sarcastic. I have no idea, Craig, where they get it from. I feel like we could have our own podcast with just our one-hour lunch conversation. So my they also like to raz each other, raz me about things constantly. And so my daughter was on there and she was frustrated and she's like, you know, I can't believe, you know, and again, I'll never name this guy's name. She's moved on to a different job now in a better position. But she said, you know, he's just added again, and they had hired another gal for the office. And she wasn't a close friend of my daughter, but she was an acquaintance. And so the gal they had went out for like a company lunch. My daughter wasn't there, but a lot of the big wigs were there, and this new hire was there. And so the girl came back and said, Oh my god, I just have to tell you this, Sam, because it really bothered me. Like your name got brought up. And so I don't know if the gal brought up that she, you know, knows Sam. And I guess so the boss is like, Oh, yeah, Sammy. Oh, we love Sammy. And he goes, And you know what? She's actually, actually, she's really smart. And it's like, and when he when he when she first said it, so of course, right away, my son's like, okay, so Sam, so you're mad because somebody said you're smart. And I'm embarrassed to admit, and this is why I'm embarrassed of that for a brief moment, I was kind of feeling like what my son said, kind of like, oh, you know, okay. But then I had to really check myself because she again, she wasn't super emotional about it, but she said, you know, uh, but why is it? Why did he have to qualify that? Why did he have to say, well, she's actually really smart? Like it was a surprise. And clearly bothered this other young gal as well enough to tell her about it. And so it's things like that that might not, it might be subtle or it might not be, you know, as bad as some of the stories we heard, but she's right. Like if that was a a young guy in the office, would he say that? Um, is it that Sam is young and blonde and attractive, you know, what is it that would make you have to say, oh, she's actually really smart? Like it would be a surprise to people. And so I guess it's just moments like that where yes, I I have to like really check myself and realize, you know what, that that's not okay. And, you know, really validate her. And I like I told her later, of course, in front of her brother, but you know, I'm I'm proud that you're able to like share that because, like I said, I feel like I don't want to create another um again, I feel like my armor is sometimes too much. And I don't want my daughter to feel like it's not okay to be bothered by things like that and to share things like that. So, you know, I made sure I validated that yeah, that that's wrong, that he shouldn't have said that about you. And I understand that why you would feel upset or why you feel like you he shouldn't have said that.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

So yeah, yeah, it's um those little like microaggressions like that that you know he may not that he could have easily just said, yeah, she's very smart.

unknown 32:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

And it would have been that would have been all that but the actually and you know, like this. Yeah, it's matters.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

It matters, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

So it wasn't it it's kind of like it's not really a compliment at that point. It's kind of like a you know, a microaggression, I guess is the best way to put it. But yeah, that I I I get what you're saying completely though, about the whole thing, you know, and you know, like you said, you saw how your mom has been kind of somewhat walked over, and you're like, I'm not gonna let that happen. And you just went the 180 opposite, and it was like nobody's gonna step on me.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

And it's not probably great. It is not. I mean, you know, and I I feel like I try to, I'm not always right, I'm not that person that always has to be right, but when I really believe something, I'm very passionate about it. Um, and so, like in my husband, I mean, I'll even share that, you know, he's probably more sensitive than I am. And, you know, I say this right in front of him, and he would admit it. And I think sometimes he's bothered by the fact that I've actually said out loud that I don't need him. And it sounds like people are making it shocking, or oh, like it sounds awful to say that you don't need somebody, but I think that I try to argue it that, you know, honey, I love you so much. I want you, I desire you, I choose you, I don't need you, and so you should feel better about that, in my opinion. You know, like I just have this intense, like again, it's just this armor or this feeling of like, if I say that I need somebody, um, because I am very independent. So it, you know, I want to be with him. I love him. He brings a lot to my life, but that's also kind of me saying, be careful, right? You know, like I need to be treated a certain way. I I need a certain respect and I need the, and he is, he's great. Um, but I don't, and again, that's just something I think that from how I was raised, and right or wrong, it's who I am. And also with age, you just kind of come into like, this is who I am. I'm not for everybody. And that's also like liberating as well. Um, I think when you're young, and that's why with the in leadership positions, you have to have hard conversations. You have to be okay with not everybody liking what you're saying, or be okay with I'm not everybody's cup of tea, right? Yeah. And being able to say, hey, you know, I get that. I I understand your perspective. I'm just I'm not gonna cave because I want everybody to like me. Um, and that's one of the hard things I think about leadership that I've grown into because as a young woman, I think I was a little bit more concerned with like, hey, I want to keep everybody happy. And we all know that's that's impossible.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Yeah, yeah. And I I mean, the bottom line is you are you, you know, you're you're not a bad person, you're you're a very great person, you're all an awesome person. Um, so yeah, I mean, you maybe, maybe it's tough sometimes to kind of turn on a little bit of an emotional response, but hey, I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. That's that's you. It is what it is, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

I think that's why I like ERT. To be honest with you, is because I've kind of it's not that I I'm come becoming somebody who I'm not, but I am able to have that more softer side or I realize what it takes because I do care. I care a lot. I want to help the people. And even though I try not to, like again, when I say I'm not sensitive, it may not, you know, people are probably like, well, wow, how is she good fit for ERT? But when I'm in like ERT and like when I've been in the training or when I share stories, even at Leadership Academy, like I think people can see like I have a lot of passion. I do like love people and I want to help them. So it's not that I don't have any of the qualities that my mother uh possesses. So in ERT, I think helps me to like flourish those or like I feel good about it. So I'm like, hey, I don't, I don't have to be so tough here. I I'm in there for a different role, I guess, than what I'm used to. And that's also what's it was a little challenging, but I I love that. I love that I'm able to, yeah, have that side of me show a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

People, I mean, the bottom line is I've never heard of one person say anything bad about you. And any time that I've been around you, you're completely surrounded by people that are always talking to you. So obviously it's okay, you know, you you're you, and that's there's nothing wrong with that. That's that's awesome. I I honestly sometimes I would say that in in my marriage that I'm probably the more sensitive of the two of us, honestly. It's you know, but I think that sometimes ladies have to kind of put up a little bit more of uh like the armor because of a lot of the way you guys do get treated a lot of times. So yeah, I I I get it. I and I don't think it was offensive at all what you said. I think it was very clear, you explained it very well. Um another question that I have that is kind of uh uh tougher question, and well, you're sitting in a hotel room right now. Um so you know, with everything that you do, and obviously it takes a lot of time away from home, um, even when you're at home working on you know, grievances or on the phone with a a member or whatever it might be, has that caused you any issues with your family or your friends being uh you know, spending as much time as you have to with the NALC?

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Yes. Um absolutely. I I mean I can't sit here and say it hasn't. I've had to be that's another thing. I'm a work in progress. It's uh it's a toxic trait of mine that I I cannot not respond to to I I really do. Like I if somebody is calling me at 4 a.m. for my branch, a lot of times I will pick up. And it's something that I have actively been working on though, um, setting aside that time because even if I'm in with my husband and I'm sitting there, I want to be present with him. And there's a big difference between just like, you know, I have some, I'm very, I don't have a lot of time. I I always say this. I said, I'm a I'm a horrible friend anymore. Like I have girlfriends like from high school that had dear friends of mine, and I have such little time that most of my time is spent with my husband because he's kind of my person. My kids are grown, but that doesn't mean they don't also need me, or it doesn't mean that I don't need to have those relationships with my girlfriends that also want me to do things with them. So I do realize that there's times where I need to maybe set aside some boundaries, some better boundaries. And, you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I'll still be there for my members. I'm just not gonna answer you right now. And so it's something I actively am working on. So I like that question because yeah, if my husband was here, he'd be shaking his head and he'd be saying, Yeah, yes, please tell her to stop doing that. And so I really again, I love him and I appreciate him. And it does like he does, even though I just said I don't need him, like he brings so many things to my life and he does like keep things going at at home. I can't say that he doesn't, right? He's taking care of the dog right now. Um, my mom actually is currently living with me, so that's a shocker. Like um, he is there for her as well. Like she's had some health issues. We're trying to get her an assisted living, so there's just a lot going on, and so he's very supportive, but I can't say he doesn't definitely he gets irritated. He does. He um, if I can help it, I keep from traveling as much as possible. Um, but in what I do, it is always kind of like okay, you know, and I I will try to make it up to him. I'll try to say, okay, listen, we're gonna Sunday I'm gonna set aside all this time, and he'll say, uh-huh. Are you gonna put your phone down? And so those comments do come out. And I think that anybody that's done these leadership roles has probably experienced this. Um, and so that is something that I wholeheartedly need to work on. Um and I will admit, you know, I know my weaknesses and my strengths, and and I do feel that I need to work on that. And I think that's good advice for anybody that's in these roles, just being able to be present with your people. Uh, life is short, you know, and that's another reason, though, that I always tell him that I'm gonna retire when I can. As much as I enjoy all of this, I even joke that I'm gonna change my phone number, whether or not I do, I don't know. Um, but I do want to be able to, hey, retire at 57 from a job that I've loved. You know, not gonna again, tomorrow's not promising. I mean, if I get there, and I want to be really present. I want to hang out with grandkids and spend time with him. And I told him, I said, hey, honey, I'll learn to cook. You know, I know he doesn't believe that right now. Again, those gender roles. I he is a wonderful cook. He cooks, he enjoys it, but I mean he cooks for me, he cleans, he's wonderful. Uh, but I said, wouldn't it be nice if I cook for you? And he's kind of like side-eye. Well, I don't know. I was like, I'll learn, I promise, I'll get a cookbook.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Well, yeah. And and that seems to be the overwhelming thing is learning to be able to shut it down, even and and you know, you see that phone call and you're like, I'm not gonna answer it. And then you're like, but what if it's something they really need me for? And nine out of ten times it's not, but what if it is that one time? You don't want to be the one that didn't answer the phone. So I I I get it as well. It's it's a tough, tough thing to kind of maneuver around on that. And I know that it does kind of frustrate other people in the house a lot of times because they're like, why are you answering the phone at 10 o'clock for to a carrier? Why? There's no need they they're not at work right now. Why are you answering? But you don't know what's going on, so yeah, I I get it. Um, well, when you do actually close the laptop, put down the phone, what do you like to do to unwind and relax? Do you have any hobbies?

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Um, I have one word for you, wine. I love we uh my husband and I do travel a lot. I love to travel. We go to wineries all over like the state and surrounding states. So if anybody's listening and uh you know of a winery in the Midwest or even anywhere, actually, that's kind of our goal. Like when I retire, we like uh traveling around, going to different wineries. We also just, you know, I do a lot of traveling. Anybody's on my Facebook page probably can see that. Um, I went to Italy with my daughter here a couple years ago. So that was a great experience. Uh, because most of the time when I travel out of the country, it's more the all-inclusive, you know, Mexico, Dominican, but we do enjoy that greatly as well. Um, so definitely traveling is something we love. And when we retire, that's definitely what we're gonna spend a lot of time doing. Um, I love sports. I'm a sports girl. Um, I'd much rather go to a ball game than go to a concert. I mean, music, you know, some people are a lot more passionate, but I like music, but I'm more of a, oh, listen to music in my car. And uh that's not a passion of mine, but sports, I don't play as many as I used to, but any, I'm very just competitive. So I love watching sports. Um, I love going to sporting events. Uh, now that we have grandkids, I like seeing their, I miss dearly my kids when they were playing sports, you know. those mothers out there right now that you're running around and you're like, oh gosh, I'm I'm I'm so like spread thin and I'm running to dance and soccer and and trust me you will miss that tremendously uh when that's when when they not when they're not doing it anymore. So um but yeah I just I again I don't have a lot of free time. I look forward to actually having more hobbies. I mean that's a great question. Uh for instance golf I I I'm horrible at it and I don't do it very often unless it's a tournament or a best shot you know I'm always like happy like oh they use one of my shots uh but it's something that I would like to be good at. And so you know there's things like that and like cooking. My husband would be dying laughing right now. But just like having those other I'd like to have a garden. I really would uh some things that I've never done but like I said this job has afforded me the ability to retire at an early age where you know hopefully I am able to do and have a lot more hobbies than I than I currently do.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

But yeah thanks for asking that yeah that I'm sounds like I mean you got plans for some hobbies once you retire so that's that's good.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Yeah um and as far as wine wineries wine country or whatever we have some good ones down here southern Illinois uh southeast Missouri even has some so you guys might need to make a trip down this direction uh well you've you know you've been around for a few years uh you've seen quite a few things I'm sure um if someone is listening to this that is uh kind of considering you know maybe stepping up and doing something in the union uh what would be a piece of advice that you would give that brand new person uh setting them off on the right foot um one thing I would definitely tell them I use the word passion a lot um and that's intentional you uh I don't have to tell you this or most of your listeners um the job as a union leader or anything with a union can be very thankless it really can and I don't need thanks and that's the that's the thing I don't expect thanks but you're dealing with a lot and so for one you got to remember to have self-care you have to you know you have to be able to say you know what I'm okay with again like I said earlier not everybody's gonna be happy if and you have to be so passionate about what you're doing because if you are don't have that passion you will not last in my opinion because again it's very demanding and there's so there's not nobody's doing it for the pay or most aren't doing it for any kind of recognition or power. It's just pure passion. If you have a passion for it, the knowledge can come you know knowledge is power you've learned that you know I look at my early grievances I'm like whoa and I still don't know everything. And I heard Leslie say that absolutely we don't I don't think anybody does um and I'm always willing to say that like I will tell my members hold on I don't want to tell you wrong let me for sure look at this let me reach out to somebody that I know as well lean on them or ask them uh but if you don't have that just overwhelming desire and passion for what you do I wouldn't do it. And just knowing that you cannot try to make everybody happy because I can assure you I don't know how many people you will make happy but I'll tell you one thing for sure you will make yourself unhappy. And so that's just something kind of you learn like as as you grow. And I don't know again I constantly talk about I'm old you know I'm I'm gonna be 53 but you know I I'm not like there's many wiser people than me but with age you do kind of settle into like again yourself you're comfortable with yourself and you just kind of don't you know don't care about certain things that you used to care about. I don't know if you know uh there's like this TikTok gal and I can't think of her name but it it's like a we do not care club and they'd say you know women in paramenopause and menopause and she just cracks me up and she'll read off a list of we just don't care about this. And I just think it's so relatable because I mean I do care. I can't say I I probably do care more than I'm letting on but there's certain things that you learned what's important to care about and what's in what's you have to let go of. And so I've kind of let go of like worrying about what everybody thinks about me. And it's green. It's like liberating even as I sit here I'm very goofy and everybody can see that. And my my son's like mom you laugh at yourself more than anybody like if you just like if he was listening to this podcast he's like see how many times you're like you're laughing at something you said um I'm quirky I'm goofy it's who I am and so I just kind of have learned that you know I let go of worrying about what people think about me because you also have this sense of you know who you are. You know your heart the people that are closest to me know that. And I'm more of a small circle girl you know even though you wouldn't know it from my text and my phone because clearly we branch out like even at Academy you give them your email and your phone number and I will absolutely help everybody anytime. And so it seems like wow like if anybody like if something happens to me or something and God forbid I'm a true crime person too. So I always joke about that like somebody killed me and that dateline they'd say wow like they confiscated her phone and like how in the world like she has you know people matter about this. And so in a union circle it's big but like my core like people that hey I know them they know me I keep my circle very small when it comes to that and so you do I just come to that realization I know who I am they know who I am that's who's important to me. And so that helps as well. And I know I'm way off base with what you ask me. So going into that yeah just knowing like who you are having the passion is what I would say. I also echo like what Leslie had said on your podcast. You don't have to know everything either. You don't you know this as we know the NALC a lot of times a lot of people don't want to get involved in the beginning. And a lot of it could be because gosh you know I don't know all that I can't like right off the cuff say what Article 41 says well yeah of course I can because I've been doing this for you know half my life I didn't know it all in the beginning I still don't know it all and so you have to be okay with just knowing if you have that passion, if you want to do it all that other stuff can be learned. You know you you can look it up in the contract and you can learn that if you have the passion to do it.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

Um so that's what yeah I would that solid advice solid advice um well I'm I'm out I'm out of questions so um I'm gonna just ask you is there anything that I missed anything that you want to add the floor is yours.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

I feel like I've already added a bunch of stuff that you didn't ask me right no it's been great it's been great. I feel like I have uh Craig I don't know you're great I I appreciate this I I like this whole conversation I don't know how it will appear in your podcast I'm hoping it sounds great and that somebody gets something out of it. Um but I just like uh talking to you you're a great guy and I do really think this is amazing this podcast that you're doing and just recognizing the women and leadership and like I said I mean the men are great too um but it is really um something that going back to like you know the the discrimination thing um it just really shows how much you can overcome um when I look around and I see the the women in leadership and even though maybe they had to work a little harder to get there I don't know you know like I I want to I want to validate their stories and their struggles and they may have worked harder to get there but hey they got there you know and I think that we've we've came a long way and we're still not there though. You know we can never be satisfied but if you go back 50 years and somebody who's listened to like this or seeing what we've accomplished as women in 50 years they'd be astonished. And I'm hoping in 50 years from now they're looking back and saying wow like you know we've came so much further than where they were 50 years ago. And that's always the hope. And I do have confidence that will happen. Um and I just you know I think that this endeavor that you've taken on is great and I hope you continue it.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

And uh well I was planning on not continuing it but unfortunately I just keep uh finding more phenomenal ladies that are leaders in our union and I'm like well I guess I'm gonna go another one and I just every time I get another one and I'm like well I'm not gonna leave her out because she's she's awesome. I don't want to leave her out so here we go we go for another one and uh I just ended up uh I think I just had my 50th episode pop up. So we're we're rolling along I uh like I have told it a million times I planned on doing about 10 episodes for my leadership project and calling it a day but here we are I'm I love it I enjoy talking to everybody and uh I've just I've met so many amazing ladies through this and it's you know every time I talk to somebody I'm like we're we're in good hands you know the union is in good hands we have a lot of phenomenal people out there killing it and it's it's awesome so thank you for the kind words as well um and I will say also I I would like to give a little shout out to the Iowa State Association. You guys are phenomenal uh I was able to come up there for your fall training I believe last year and uh it was you guys treated me like I was just a member of the crew in fact I even have an Iowa State Association shirt that it was given to me and um I have I've been to a bunch of different ones and everywhere I go I love but you guys made it super special and you got an amazing crew up there.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

So uh call that Iowa nice Craig Iowa Nice.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

Iowa nice well I believe it because you guys are awesome. Uh I I I love my Missouri State Association and everything but um I I felt very comfortable there. Everybody there was just awesome is all I can say. So thank you for that as well. And um other than that I just appreciate you coming on. I know it's been a hard one to get hooked up because you're such a busy lady but we made it and we got it done. So thank you and uh thank everybody else for listening and be safe and be kind of